This week I highlighted several websites that are repurposing my content as their own, or (in a less litigious scenario) reposting my work without my permission as a way to increase their own traffic.  Surprisingly, I learned via the comments and Twitter conversations about this situation that a vast majority of the people I talk to don’t believe in intellectual property or the inherent value of ideas, and feel that piracy and conceptual theft are not only defensible but necessary for the advancement of humanity.

In the past, I’ve been a devil’s advocate on both sides of this debate.  I hate abuse of copyright law by corporations that stranglehold ideas and concepts, yet I appreciate the same law’s ability to protect individuals from having their ideas and concepts stolen and profited upon by those same corporations.  I even admit it’s illogical to argue that anyone can own an idea.  But now, after talking with Nick Pinkston, Steve Klabnik and Mary Hartney, I’m open to a new concept:

Ideas are worthless, and no one should ever be paid for them.

Our comments and conversations about this point were a bit scattered, but in a nutshell, here’s what I learned:

  • Tangible goods have value due to scarcity
  • Tangible goods have value due to physical production costs
  • Ideas have no production cost
  • Ideas are infinite, and therefore cannot be scarce
  • Sharing ideas benefits the world
  • Restricting ideas harms the world
  • Therefore, ideas — which are inherently worthless — must be shared freely

Note that, to clarify, books should not be stolen, since — even though they merely contain ideas, which are free and therefore worthless — they incurred physical production costs and are property that is legally owned.  However, books should be photocopied for free and then disseminated, and CDs should be burned and shared without profit.  (This is a paraphrase of Nick’s multi-tweet response to my book-related question.)

Given that, I’ve drawn the following conclusions:

  • Artists, authors, musicians, politicians, philosophers and linguists produce no work of actual value, and therefore should not be compensated.
  • Unlike those who originate ideas, those who repeat the ideas in a tangible form incur physical replication costs and therefore should be compensated.
  • Whenever possible, those physical representations should be copied and shared without actually paying the producers of the materials.

All of which adds up to one question: if ideas are worthless, and the dissemination of them is likely to incur more cost for the reproducers than anyone would advocate paying for, why develop new ideas in the first place?

The answer (at least via this debate) is that ideas are a means to an end, and that end should always be the production of a tangible good that can be owned.  So, to take the extreme long view, concepts like freedom, justice and identity are only of value in the sense that they permit individuals to produce and harvest rice, grain and wood.

To extrapolate further, it’s logical to presume that any non-tangible goods Nick, Steve and Mary have produced are free for the taking — or repurposing — by anyone else.  In that case, I have some suggestions:

  • Steve already said that anything on his blog is free for the taking, including his code.  He’s even cool with you putting your own name on it and passing it off as your own.  High school and college students: this means you can use Steve’s code in any classes where original code is required, since his code is your code.  Enjoy.
  • Nick is the co-founder of GearHeadz, a company that makes tangible items.  However, since Nick doesn’t believe in patents or intellectual property [CLARIFICATION: See comments below], it’s safe to say that anything intangible produced by GearHeadz is also yours for the taking.  That means you now have a corporate identity, a business plan, a marketing strategy and a relationship with investors like AlphaLab — all you have to do is demand that Nick turn them over to you.  Because those are all intangible concepts and relationships, they’re simply ideas; not sharing them with you, by Nick’s own admission, hurts other people.  (He also invites you to use his name, as long as you’re not impersonating him.)
  • Mary’s case would seem to be a grey area, since she works for the Baltimore Sun and, therefore, it could be argued that the Sun “owns” her work — “copyright infringement” and “fair use,” etc.  But the problem is that the Sun is a newspaper, and since newspapers are simply physical representations of ideas (as per Nick’s valuation of books, above), it’s reasonable to conclude that anything the Baltimore Sun (or any other newspaper) prints is free to be redistributed or re-sold with no fee due to the paper, save for the actual cost of purchasing a physical copy.  (And since that information is also available for free online, you can simply copy and paste the articles and then reprint your own Baltimore Sun in your own city.  Have fun!)

I could go on, but the possibilities are limitless.  The bottom line is: ideas are worthless.  What matters is who can sell the most tangible goods the fastest, so they can earn more resources, with which they can buy more tangible goods.  Ideas merely get in the way… except for that part where they’re so important for the future of society that they must be transmitted freely.

Later, we should all debate whether anyone can truly own anything tangible either, since concepts like the state, law, ownership and identity are all intangible ideas and, therefore, unenforceable and inherently worthless.  But it’s already been a long week, and some of us have grain to produce.

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  • I meant "so", not "some"

    Good editing is not worthless.
  • If ideas are worthless, why is it some important to share them?

    "You have to give us that! Sharing it would benefit everyone! And besides, it's not worth anything!"

    Um....
  • I tried to cite wikipedia in that block quote... but surprisingly I messed it up.

    I can just claim the information as my own anyway though right? ;)

    How would high school and college been different under this new premise?
  • The individual creating something for the organization is another possible area to explore. Does an idea become worthless to the individual who champions it, when the company takes it over?

    As an example: Bill Smith first formulated the concept of Six Sigma at Motorola in 1986.

    Six Sigma is the TQM spin-off that has generated billions of dollars for Motorola. As a Motorola employee, Smith did not share directly in the profits generated by the company's Six Sigma applications. However, over the years, he and Motorola garnered numerous awards and recognition for his vital work to improve profitability in America's manufacturing sector.
  • Mary
    Technically, what Jeff is doing is not fine -- just because he's giving credit and adding a link doesn't mean he has the right to use the entirety of someone else's work. Same as your previous Blogger #3.

    My whole point is really about the "gray area," as you put it, of *how much* someone else can borrow/steal/use of your original work. The answer lies somewhere between none and all of it.
  • Jeff
    I am new to blogging, and I have been reposting blog posts by other authors to give value to anyone who might be reading my blog. I ALWAYS put the authors name at the top so that readers know who wrote it, and I also put a link to that author's blog so that people can go there and subscribe if they like what they have read.

    Is that okay? Or am I completely f'ing up?
  • Jeff: You didn't link to your blog for us to see, but just going by the way you've explained your process, you're in a grey area. The good: you're giving credit where credit is due. The bad: if all you're doing is reposting other people's content, you're not really 'blogging;' you're aggregating and curating other people's work. Which, technically, is fine, but it's a different discipline with different motivations -- and since some people don't mind profiting from the work of others, those motivations aren't always given the benefit of the doubt by outsiders.

    My advice (again, without seeing your blog or knowing more about it): define for yourself WHY you're blogging (or curating), and then make sure your actions match your intentions.
  • Money is only one currency we use and it is not fair or accurate to limit the value of something to money. For example, this comment is taking about 12 minutes of time I could be investing somewhere else, like drinking a beer. Instead, I choose to spend it here because your idea of ideas having no value has value to me. About 12 minutes worth of value.

    Tying value to the tangible COST of stuff is always a limited argument. Time is really our only true asset and many artists, musicians, philosophers, etc spend down a lot of capital before ever making anything "tangible." Some are more skilled at recouping their investment whereas others are not.

    I contend some ideas do have value that is tangible, which is why they are not freely published on blogs, Facebook pages and Twitter. Ideas that ARE published on blogs are expected to be discussed, copied, stolen, whatever and that is their value. In arguing that ideas have no value, you perhaps should consider the entire universe of ideas, not just the shareware ones (including this comment!) that folks are willing to float out there freely.
  • Michael Bailey
    Bad ideas are NOT worthless, because without them you will never come up with the GOOD ideas.

    In the end, I don't understand what all of this discussion is about, it doesn't matter.
  • Ed
    It's funny, the people I've watched claim that "ideas"
    don't warrant compensation, who want to consume others expertise for free every timeare usually cheapskates, or independently wealthy.

    Every TV, radio, heck, every content producer should work for free.
    The coders building Twitter? Give back all that VC money!
    I know for a fact that most of the CONCEPTS for the construction
    of Twitter and other sites occurs in the heads of the engineers
    when off the clock - I say they should be sued to give back any earnings!!

    Justin, I'm glad you addressed this. I've had these thoughts simmering for while.
    Companies moving the 'free line' directly vs their
    competition is one thing.
    But my TIME is valuable.
    When someone wants my time for free, to advance them,
    they have simply said;
    "My existence is more important than yours"
  • Simon T Small
    Interesting post, although value isn't calculated on the cost of an item, service or idea, it's the benefit that it's delivers the buyer.

    Ideas have low value & high value depending on the beneft they provide and the alternatives (competition) in the market. And competition isn't similar ideas but things which provide the same benefit.
  • Steve: Gotcha. I've added a link to your comment in the GearHeadz example above.

    Thanks to everyone for your comments. While I'm purposely a provocateur with this post, I do think all sides have valid points. On one hand, I believe that if someone articulates an idea, they deserve (at minimum) credit for so doing. On the other, I agree that an idea -- like any "good" or "service" -- is only as valuable, in strict resource-trading terms, as what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone will pay you for a concept, rock on, but most concepts don't earn compensation until they're proven -- and proof requires tangibility.

    This topic is surrounded by grey areas (especially art and "ownership") but in the end, if someone can profit from something, they will -- or else someone else will, at another's expense.
  • I'll be leaving a "better" comment later, but quickly, while I have the chance: Justin, I'd appreciate it if you could make a small note next to the statement about GearHeadz about how while Nick and I don't personally believe that IP is a valuble concept, we're respectful of other's beliefs, and if you check out CloudFab's Terms of Service, you'll see that we promise explicitly not to share other's intellectual property. Regardless of personal opinions, laws are laws (not to mention the trust that's involved), and several of our customers feel the need to protect thier IP, and we'd like to respect their decisions.

    Forcing your own opinions on others is bad.
  • I think Katrina and Rob Clark said it well. Bad ideas are worthless, good ideas are valuable. People should be able to profit from their talent. Some people are more talented and work harder than others. It's the others that usually argue that ideas should be free. :)
  • Clearly, I agree that ideas are not worthless. And yes, ideas are abundant, I could give you 20 right now. But, they WOULD be worthless because they aren't GOOD ideas, or, possibly even actionable.

    I would argue that by supporting, (financially and socially) the thinkers, inventors, artists and philosophers of our age, we will produce MORE good ideas, and a better society.

    The Ideas are worthless path does not seem to be one that would encourage innovation or growth, being strictly production based.
  • Excellent post, Justin. Machan's paper (Eric's second link) basically sums my philosophy on the matter.

    If I create something, I own it, unless I have assigned my claim to it to someone else (idea, product; intangible, tangible) or it is capable of asserting its right not to be claimed (child; other being).

    I can choose to profit or not to profit from my creation. I can choose to allow others to profit from it, either with or without compensation. It is ethically, morally, and generally legally wrong for anyone to deprive me of my claim to my creation.

    When I create something I publish on the Internet, I always license it, be it on my terms or on the terms of the site to which I posted it. If I'm posting on BIOS LEVEL, I assign the my claim to BIOS LEVEL, which retains all of its claims except in the cases where something is licensed with Creative Commons. If I'm posting on my own blog, I retain my claims; my rights to the material unless I specifically state in a specific post that it's available for others to use under certain, pre-specified terms.

    Alternatively, there have been a few occasions where I have created something and relinquished my claims to it by designating it as Public Domain. Anyone can do anything they want with it, even claim it as their own (depending on government jurisdiction: I believe US allows this, while UK law asserts moral rights to a work and Public Domain indicates that anyone may use, alter, duplicate, or distribute, but not claim it as their own).
  • I have to disagree that ideas are worthless.

    Ideas have an increasingly diminishing cost to disseminate, but the amount of investment required in order to generate an idea is tremendous. Years are poured into the experiences, knowledge and understanding that eventually comes out as ... an idea.

    The question is, how does one recognize value in the dissemination of an idea and can the dissemination be controlled. I think the cost to monitor and police the dissemination is going to soon outweigh the benefits in maintaining a monopoly or firm control on the flow of ideas.

    But what people will eventually realize is that, while ideas are plentiful, good ideas are a bit more scarce. And good execution of a good idea scarcer still. And consistently producing good ideas with equally good execution ... those people may not be able to wield an iron fist in control of the ideas, but they will most certainly find opportunities to benefit from the creation of their next idea.
  • Patents can work like CC now. If you own a patent you can negotiate a royalty agreement with anyone, including free use. CC is a restriction of use just like a traditional patent, it's just that its default is to share at some level. If ideas are truly free then someone will always get screwed. If its not the shareholders and employees, it's the taxpayers or insurance company customers.

    The notion that ideas don't cost anything or have no value only considers "ideas" that are vaporous notions. Fully-formed ideas take work. Composers work very hard to produce great works of music. Screenwriter, playwrights and novelists as well. Sure, the idea of a movie about modern day gangsters in LA might have come in an inspired second to Quentin Tarantino when he was eating his Cheerios and reading the newspaper. But the script for Pulp Fiction took him a long time and his writing talent to produce.

    To characterize these ideas as worthless or only worth the paper they're printed on or the time and resources they cost to produce is utterly ridiculous.
  • Which is why drug companies live and die by patents, even while patients live and die according to how quickly those patents can run out so knockoffs can be created more cheaply. Health is an ugly business.

    In the pharmaceutical sense, A) the research is often funded under pretense of developing a salable drug, and B) the fees from of R&D; can be passed on to the insurance companies who subsidize the consumer's purchase cost. Researchers still get paid for their work.

    But what if patents worked like Creative Commons licenses? What if anyone *could* immediately produce a knockoff drug, as long as the originators of the patent were compensated for every knockoff pill sold? Wouldn't everyone still benefit, and faster?
  • Moreover, where does it leave society? If just compensation is not due to the developers, no one will develop such drugs. Even if consortia are formed, someone outside them can still steal the plans. That notion just doesn't hold water in the general case.
  • Yes, but then I can profit from someone else's expenditures by essentially stealing it. I can go out and produce the drug for less than the company who spent millions to develop it. Where does that leave them?
  • Some ideas take resources to produce. The design for a new drug can take millions of dollars in research to develop, yet it's only an idea, a recipe written down on paper.
  • Right, but in the case of a drug, you're not paying for the idea of a drug. You're paying for a physical substance borne from the idea.

    I think what Steve and Nick are saying is that merely conceiving of an idea is not enough to be worth compensation. But even committing that idea to paper is an action that requires measurable time and resources, and produces a good which can be sold. Whether or not someone should be paid simply for thinking seems to be at the heart of the debate -- as well as whether ideas, once committed to paper / disc / device, deserve to be purchased.
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